Please update traditions

Hey!, I play with "Servant All Jobs", I don't know if there could be chance to make a patch for this mods to work together, is the only mod that I have can alter species rights for the moment, and I want to mantain that mod for the psionic batteries livestock

So I can put robots on assimilation (DA, picked cybernetics first), but they never assimilate into my main species.

i put htis on last order , but still not working. cannot choose other awakening ascention, after choose one. or does this need a new game run?

Ya, that's what I thought, too, but I can't seem to find the conflict. I'm a patch happy guy and Irony is my trusty sidekick in that department, but...
Not a big deal, still having a good time.

@RedRover72 sounds like a mod conflict if you can't select Hive Dissociation.

That's the problem, they can't be deassimilated.

Also - there is no difference between pre-FTLs and hive-minded Pops from an empire - you can just force-spawn a hive empire if you want to test.

@RedRover72 I did find a small error that my mod allowed selecting Psionic assimilation for hive Pops without deassimilating them first - which would result in psionic hive Pops.

This is ultimately what it should look like this with Psionic, Cybernetic, and Genetic assimilation: https://app.screencast.com/pAvzhxwsyvrEL

Is that similar to what you are seeing?

@RedRover72 I'll take a look. They Pops should lose their Hive Mind trait after being deassimilated, and then able able to assimilated again as Psionic and/or Cybernetic.

Sorry, I guess the term is Hive Dissociation

Greetings, I just came across an issue I hadn't seen since 3.8 came out. Can't seem to assimilate hive pops, even with the gene tradition fully unlocked.
In this case I invaded a Hive pre-FTL after already taking Psionic and Gene traditions.

The reason displayed says
"Not possible due to:
X Hive minds can not develop psionic powers"

In vanilla they would just be a plain pop without psionic after Hive Dislocation. With this mod I figured I could then assimilate again to make them psy and/or cyber.

Of course I have several mods in play, but I'm not sure how to test this with only this mod, as I'm not sure how to force a hive empire to spawn next to me. It's possible it still works if psionic (and probably cybernetic) traditions haven't been taken... but, how to test??

Probably not this mod that's the problem; does this mod account for Hive Dislocation, though?

Ah, something new! Adding that to my modlist now. I'll check out your other mod, too; looks very interesting.

@RedRover72 I spoke with ArutamSartek and looked at the code. He's planning to add some code to support my mod Civic: Organic Zealots (the main conflict). If you add his submod ! Sartek TAP Merger - Ascension Path Fusion (https://sp.zhabite.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2979443893) it resolves the conflict.

Hmm I was just checking other mods and found out you were talking about my mod lol. Well, we can discuss about compatibility @corsairmarks, I also want my mods to play nice with other mods.

Actually, he stopped doing the multipath thing with 3.8 and removed that feature.

Their mod appears to also adjust assimilation - I'll have to take a peek and make sure I don't kill any of its features by doing that. I did move mine lower (from 30_ to zz_) so that I would override Forgotten Queens, because their assimilation citizenship changes didn't actually have any effect and were safe to overwrite.

@corsairmarks Greetings, just wanted to give a heads up. If you are using ArutamSartek's excellent ! Sartek Tradition - Ascension Perk Merger mod https://sp.zhabite.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2821711162 , with this mod, you will need to add a couple of "z"'s to the beginning of your"...ascension_path_overrides" file. Yours has 2 z's, his has 3 z's, so it wins the LIOS contest in that folder. This simple fix makes multiple ascensions work again.

Haha no worries - it was good to have the reminder tho. I knew I had goofed one of my uploads but I couldn't figure out which one.

I was just having some fun with you. I figured that was the case.

@RedRover72 I copied and pasted the description from the wrong mod! I'll get that fixed...

Ummm... can I ask about the new mod description?
"Lithoids can pick the Agrarian Idyll civic, but the benefits are still applied to farming districts."

huh???

@corsairmarks Yes, it was very easy to change. Even people with zero mod experience should have little trouble making the necessary change. I completely support your position. Thanks again for your mods!
Cheers, Red

@RedRover72 looks like they just remove the tradition-slot-based-limit, which is the same as Reianor was advocating. Since I'm weirdly a stickler for some things, I'll support any Tradition Slot mod that already provides are variable (currently I am aware of only UIOD but I'm open to others).

For other mods, it's possible for users or other modders to patch with this mod's variable.

@corsairmarks Greetings, here's the mod I was thinking of. I definitely remember a tradition slot check function similar to yours in that mod. https://sp.zhabite.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2821711162

@RedRover72 PDX loves modders and I love PDX! I have lots of mods so I'm still reviewing code changes for many of them, including Leader Traits: All Species.

I wasn't able to find the other mod you mentioned - if you link it, I can check what it does. For now I added built-in support for UIOD tradition/AP submods - they define their own variable.

@corsairmarks Greetings, thank you so much for updating this, and on release day, too!! I noticed the dependencies have not yet been updating, but after looking in Irony, I wonder if they need any changes at all?
Also, on your tradition slots conversation, ArutamSartek is using a similar function to for slot count, but somehow seems to be dynamic or is pulling info from somewhere. Might be worthwhile checking out his merger mod to see what he did??
Ahh, took me too long to type this, you've already updated one of those dependencies!
@Patient Yes, in 3.6 I regularly filled out 64 thanks to Orries submod, and that was not enough by about 20. I eventually started using the one from Tidy Traditions that give 127/128 tradition and ascension slots. And yes, I'm a Tradition"al" nerd.

UIOD MTC has versions for 12 16 32 48 and 64
I'm sticking to 16 cus 32 would leave too much blanks in my game set-up (the only mod I'm using ATM that adds any new traditions is Gigas with their 3).

I used to stick to vanilla 7 but then I got bored of maxing traditions by mid-game point or even before mid-game point, and decided that adding more tradition slots to fill was the best way for dealing with that boredom. (hell of a lot more fun than stacking ascension tiers on planets)

Might end up adding still more slots (and more traditions this time, cus it doesn't look like 16 are enough for a long haul either. And I'm not even making specialised unity planets. Gees...

Might have something to do with playing psionic necrophages lately... <whistles innocently>
(on every planet Monument + Psi Corps + CoE/HoA, feels like I'm drowning in unity at times)

@corsairmarks Girion's Expanded Stellaris Traditions mod is 44 (I don't currently use it mind you, gonna wait for an update) so maybe Lots of Traditions - 48 Tradition Slots? https://sp.zhabite.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2603957954

@anyone else do you use more that 48 slots ever?

@Reianor Unfortunately, variables from the defines file are not available for modders to access. If PDX ever adds that ability (or even converts Tradition slot count to a game setup value) I'll update that very day.

It is frustrating that this can't be resolved in a way that is best for everyone. For my mod philosophy, I target the base game with enhancements. Which is why I've stuck to the original limit of 7, but I left the door open for extremely straightforward compatibility. I know that I referenced PD and Gigas before, but they are a good example of this too: they have triggers and other ways for other modders to use to build in compatibility for their mods.

I could publish submods, but I have no idea what common "sizes" of traditions slots are. If users could link which mods they are using here in my comments section, I can easily create and upload a 1-liner submod that will make both the tradition slot mod and this one work together.

And the longer I think about it the more it bugs me...
If it's only between a pair of mods and not 3 at a time as I though it was, then what's the problem with building that compatibility entirely on ascension perk mod's side?
AFAIK most tradition slot mods come in “packs” one author making several version, AND they are all tied to some kind of UI modification (because vanilla UI doesn't have the means for displaying more than 7).
So it follows that mast majority of them would have to expose their size “setting” as a variable at some point.
For example the one I'm using has:

NGameplay = {
TRADITION_CATEGORIES_MAX = 16
}

Can't variables like those be grabbed from your end?

Damn... took a look at vanilla files and now I feel stupid.
For some reason I was sure that vanilla check was looking at perk slots not tradition slots which felt weird but I thought “there must be a technical reasons for it if they are doing it”.
But they're not doing it. There are no technical issues there. Both it and your mod check the number of taken tradition trees.
If what I though was actually the case then there'd be serious issues with mods that just add the perk slots in the mix. But it's not the case so there shouldn't be any.
So disregard what I said about 3-way cooperation. It's a 2-way one.
Still don't think it's a good check to keep, but it's only about 66% as bad as I thought it was.

And the other, about making it as easy as possible. As easy as possible would be making a submod that enables/disables that check.
Don't get me I don't think that editing file text file is particularly hard. But:
A) That's steam workshop we're dealing with. Last I checked it doesn't support user configuration files, every time you update they'll have to re-do it. And,
B) You're expecting users to read your instructions and modify a file because you're expecting other users to not read the game's own instructions and take a perk in a rare scenario in which it is useless.
You're... what was that saying again? putting the carriage before the horse?

Sorry I'm bugging you. I'll stop with this.

Sorry I'm being insistent, I'm actually starting to annoy myself somehow, so I think I'll stop after this. Just a few things that's been bugging me because they were left unsaid.

One is that I've read the comment thread of many similar mods (and consider yours to the best of them btw). I don't remember a single complaint in a mod that disabled that check about the check being disable. However IIRC every mod that left the check in had at least one person reporting being unable to take perks because of it. This is why I'm so sure that the check does more harm than good.

Thanks for this! Does exactly what I needed it to do. And it was easy to merge into my 100+ long mod list, too (thanks to your notations!)
Cheers, Red

How long has it been since PI changed ascension to involve tradition trees?
Did anyone cooperate since then?

At least flip it around - disable the check by default and re-enable it if some flips your compatibility trigger. That way you can keep the check if someone actually does use your variable, but not give users any trouble otherwise.
Or you could also let users set that variable themselves though event at the star of the game.
The perk slot mod I'm using does something like that.

I'm truly sorry if I'm being annoying... I mean I know it's your mod to do with as you please, it's just... It's a pet peeve of mine. I can't stand it when people are being unreasonable. ... Yeah, I know, not a fun quirk to live with.

You wanna stop people from shooting themselves in the foot but as a result of that you're the one that's shooting their feet.

Greatswizard was an example of this. He had the slots, but could not use the perk and will not be able to unless he either changes from your mod to someone else's or changes to a slot mod that actually uses your set-up variable (if there even is one, is there? ).

I'm not against cooperation but you'd need cooperation on a global scale for this in order to avoid causing problems for mod users. There's only one PD, and one GIGAS, so it's reasonable for their authors to set up specific compatibility triggers. There are buckets of different tradition slot mods, ascension perk slot mods and ascension perk mods. You can't honestly expect all of their different authors to spontaneously agree on the same common variable to use. And for what? For the sake of one measly fool-proof check?

@wagnerleung0079 I changed the built-in localisation to use the leader's name instead of title. I'm a bit lazy and didn't add updated content for every language,

title = utopia.2605.title should be updated to title = "utopia.2605.name" for different language other than english

@Reianor It's an important restriction - users shouldn't be able to take as ascension AP if there are not Traditions slots left. The ascension APs provide almost no benefits if the tradition tree can't be unlocked. Big parts of making software is helping people not shoot themselves in the foot.

It is fair to assume that other mod authors might like to support this mod, or that mod-users can fill the gap. And I made the process as easy as possible by providing a single script_variable to overwrite, and provide detailed instructions both in the mod description and in the code. No need for functions of anything, it's one line of code in 1 file:

common/scripted_variables/zz_my_mod_name.txt: @assimilate_all_the_pops_tradition_categories_max = 15

(change the 15 to whatever number the expanded traditions mod supports)

FWIW, I code in support for other mods, such as Planetary Diversity or Gigas, to my mods. And I add support for other mods when users request it, if possible.

Whoops misread the nickname. Sorry.
Also I meant to say "ascention_perk_slot-related".

Then again, what do I care? I pick all of mine long before I get to 7th tradition...

So we need author(s) of two mods to write a function that calculates the user's in-game "too late" point, and then an author of a third mod to incorporate that into the actual check.
OR we could do it the sane way and just let the user himself count his own bloody tradition slots like a responsible adult.
Obvious choice IMHO.

@greatsword
Pick your ascension perks earlier or use different mod that removes this restriction from vanilla.

@corsairmarks
Stop expecting every author of every ascension_perk-related mod out there to play along and just remove that restriction altogether.
Pretty please?

It's a vanilla "foolproof" check that forbids you from taking any path-perks once you run out of slots to take traditions.
Barely worth it in vanilla and a total nuisance for a modified game.
If you have any combination of mods that lets you either have more ascension perks or more tradition slots it becomes a headache for 3 different mod authors to share.
To actually know "how late is too late?" you have to be responsible for the code in both the tradition slot mods and the extra perk slots mods the user is using (and invoke some kind of interaction between them because those come in many versions EACH).
But to actually remove the restriction you need to be responsible for the tradition mod(s) the user is using.

@greatswizard as noted above, there is a scripted_variable other mods that add the ability to take more tradition trees can override in order to work with this one. Contact the author of that mod so they can add support for this one.

I am able to assimilate non-hive-minded Pops into a hive mind with only Assimilate All the Pops! active. Check that none of your other mods overwrite citizenship_asssimilation. Screenshot: https://www.screencast.com/t/kncAh1pJg0s5

hey so, I have more tradition trees than the normal 8 and it seems to block me being able to take the other ascension paths. also, despite having the bio ascencion perk, I can't assimilate non hiveminds into my empire

@wagnerleung0079 yes I found the trigger. I suppose I meant, it's unclear why PDS decided to add those restrictions in the first place.

The script is in 00_scripted_triggers.txt
can_harvest_dna = {

@wagnerleung0079 different ascensions did block it, but unclear why because harveting DNA did not require Genetic ascension in the first place.

It's adjusted now - all regular and hive empires can harvest DNA regardless of ascension path, and so can Driven Assimilators and Rogue Servitors.

Yes but block by Synthetic Evolution, The Flesh is Weak, Mind Over Matter, and Engineered Evolution.